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Sax Apeal 516: back
Sax Apeal 516: ya still there?
KNick71: yup

Sax Apeal 516: see my delima?
Sax Apeal 516: however u spell it
Sax Apeal 516: dillemma
KNick71: well it would be easier if she actually wanted any p;art of this
Sax Apeal 516: im guessing she doesn.t...
Sax Apeal 516: personal information?
KNick71: of what kind??
Sax Apeal 516: that she's told u that she doesn't want to be part of this... yadda yadda...
KNick71: no but i can read in between the lines, i know she want to move on

Sax Apeal 516: glad she was able to move on so quickly
KNick71: and that shes trying her best to do that
KNick71: now dont take it that way, its been hard ob her as well
Sax Apeal 516: i guess i just read the signs enough to udnerstand that i had to try again...
KNick71: if thats what u read, then i am not going to dispute that, but i am warning u that at this moment in time u will be casueing more harm thab good
Sax Apeal 516: so i wait...
Sax Apeal 516: for what?
Sax Apeal 516: or i run towards another brick wall, followed by running again for antoher brick wall
Sax Apeal 516: i've already been with someone who now know as victim #1
KNick71: ill take that as, u wont allow another girl into yuor life becasue she just isnt jenny
Sax Apeal 516: ummm... almost... more like i wount let another girl into my life because i dont' want to hurt her while is still love and feel for jenny...
Sax Apeal 516: and thruoguhout my travels trying to run away from jenny
Sax Apeal 516: i've learned that sometimes there are something that you really cant run away from...
KNick71: running away from no, coping with it rationally yes

Sax Apeal 516: so just accept that i love someone and feel for them but can't do antyhign about it?
Sax Apeal 516: how is that rational?
KNick71: lets go into some philosohy shall we??
Sax Apeal 516: sure
Sax Apeal 516: shoot
KNick71: david hume once said that rationitly shalle be a slave to our passions
KNick71: so the wiestion is... how do we establish a subjective rationallity?

Sax Apeal 516: ok... how?
KNick71: and once we establish that..... how do we know that it isnt our own prejusdices running our lives???

Sax Apeal 516: lets hear the answer...
KNick71: ok
KNick71: its a four step process
Sax Apeal 516: ok
KNick71: so im goin to borrow a lesson from jant
Sax Apeal 516: jant?
KNick71: ok, this is what he calls the " catergorical imperative", kant, emanuel jant
KNick71: kant

Sax Apeal 516: oh ok...
KNick71: damn keyboard
Sax Apeal 516: categorical imperative...
KNick71: anyway
Sax Apeal 516: go aheead
KNick71: yup
KNick71: hold on
KNick71: got to go poty
Sax Apeal 516: hehe ok
KNick71: ok now im good, are u ready grasshopper?

Sax Apeal 516: yes
Sax Apeal 516: go ahead
KNick71: ok nmow this is his plan on how to distingush between ratinality and unratinality
KNick71: ok
KNick71: first
KNick71: formulate the idea
KNick71: so, I do X in circumstances C in order to do Y
KNick71: so in your case
KNick71: i contact jenny while havinf a brokeb heart and unresolved feelings in order for resolution
KNick71: so far so good??
Sax Apeal 516: ok
Sax Apeal 516: let me pause for a sec
Sax Apeal 516: r u aloowed out this late at night?
KNick71: noramlly, but i got to get some sleep soon, i have a big day tommrow
Sax Apeal 516: ok so continue...
KNick71: now we have our situation
KNick71: now he says to generalize it
KNick71: Everyone will contact a losy love while having a broken heart and unresolved feelinf for reslution
KNick71: ok?
Sax Apeal 516: don't like the term "losy love" but ok
Sax Apeal 516: u mean lost?
KNick71: lost love

Sax Apeal 516: ok
KNick71: yeds
Sax Apeal 516: fine
Sax Apeal 516: go ahead
KNick71: now take that and formulate it as if it were a law of nature
KNick71: everyone always contacts a lost love while broken hearted with unresolved feelings for resolutio
KNick71: so far so god?
Sax Apeal 516: i think its a bit over generalized... but i'll let you continue.. there are more circumstances thatn just a broken heart...
KNick71: of course but i cant type that fast
KNick71: and that much
Sax Apeal 516: but it makes a different....
Sax Apeal 516: because if you discuss with
Sax Apeal 516: only one point of circumstance, it doesn't the means does't justifty the actions...
Sax Apeal 516: if you discuss over all the circumstances, i believe the means justifty
Sax Apeal 516: ss the actions...
Sax Apeal 516: but i'll let you continue...
KNick71: ah but u leave out the consequences
KNick71: u talk about the means and actions of justification but hold no regard
KNick71: for what happens when u carry out yuor means
KNick71: or will
Sax Apeal 516: its more of a comparison between the present state of being, vs the possiblity of the future after the consequences...
KNick71: if it was simply a matter
KNick71: noi think u blur possibility with present consequenes
KNick71: lets go from the outside in

Sax Apeal 516: ok
KNick71: in the end i think u want some sort of resoltuon, right??
KNick71: peace
Sax Apeal 516: yes
Sax Apeal 516: one way or another...
KNick71: happiness
KNick71: whatever
Sax Apeal 516: ok
Sax Apeal 516: so thats the end...
Sax Apeal 516: resolution/happiness...
KNick71: now lets analzyse yuor means
Sax Apeal 516: ok
KNick71: we want those means to be efficient as possible right??

KNick71: meaning, the less heartbreak the better

Sax Apeal 516: umm... like to, but accepting if not...
Sax Apeal 516: yes...
Sax Apeal 516: ok
Sax Apeal 516: acceptable
KNick71: and ideally we want those means to be generally going both ways for both u and jenny right?

Sax Apeal 516: yes
Sax Apeal 516: want to be good for both...
KNick71: right
Sax Apeal 516: yes
KNick71: so if we want an ideal situation, logic would tell u that some sort of time would be needed to insure any rift in those ends
KNick71: would be deledted
KNick71: corrrect?

Sax Apeal 516: whoah...
Sax Apeal 516: nops
Sax Apeal 516: nope
Sax Apeal 516: time brings on all eventualities...
KNick71: how so?
KNick71: an but impulse brings disater
Sax Apeal 516: who said impulse?
Sax Apeal 516: more like a 'hi"
Sax Apeal 516: when i checked a berrage of sorts is an impulse...
KNick71: patience would insure that no cludy thinking is involvede

Sax Apeal 516: a "HI" isn't...
KNick71: if u mean a hi without any pretense then yes
KNick71: but your hi has a much more deeper psychoigcal meaning behind it
Sax Apeal 516: y am i assumed to allways say hi with a marriage ring included?
Sax Apeal 516: and y is that assumed?
KNick71: are u saying to me that "Hi" doesnt involve anything eslse, on terms such as, please i ned to talk to u??

Sax Apeal 516: not so...
Sax Apeal 516: no intention of "asking questions"
Sax Apeal 516: more intention of starting a very benign conversation
Sax Apeal 516: but back to another point i have
Sax Apeal 516: if you take my situation for a second
Sax Apeal 516: i have no clue whats been going on with her, nobody even wants to tell me, except about her BF...
Sax Apeal 516: and while
Sax Apeal 516: i try to move far away from her, and try i have
Sax Apeal 516: i've been thru two rounds of cousneling
Sax Apeal 516: i've been thru vacations
Sax Apeal 516: i've been thru many peer interventions,
Sax Apeal 516: to get away
Sax Apeal 516: and every
Sax Apeal 516: EVERY
Sax Apeal 516: e
Sax Apeal 516: v
Sax Apeal 516: e
Sax Apeal 516: r
Sax Apeal 516: y
Sax Apeal 516: time
KNick71: but u havent got resolution

Sax Apeal 516: i began to move even th slightest second way
Sax Apeal 516: i am returned by anything from a weird dream, to meeting jenny's twin sister...
Sax Apeal 516: signs, to me that say that im going the wrong way
Sax Apeal 516: .
KNick71: i think that u know what is possible in terms of ends, and reslotution, but the means might not be the way u want

Sax Apeal 516: how so?
KNick71: i dont think u will ever have jenny as a love again, not in the way that would make u ideally happy, but i do think that friends is not out of reach
KNick71: but u would ave to make sacrifices

Sax Apeal 516: what sacrafices?
KNick71: like your feelings, in order for the good and health of a friendship, and your going to have to sacrifice all that hurt and bitterness
KNick71: thatsgoing through u
Sax Apeal 516: the hurt and bitterness has become a hurt and bitterness of myself... no longer angry at her... funny enoguh i've actually agreed with her actions...
KNick71: what do u mean?

Sax Apeal 516: i've retrospected thru my counseling and have become fault ridden...
Sax Apeal 516: another way to say it "i've figured out how i fucked up"
KNick71: and how did u fuck up??
Sax Apeal 516: well...
Sax Apeal 516: shall i go thru everything, or just a sumary?
Sax Apeal 516: summary
KNick71: summary
Sax Apeal 516: everything from being too controling, not understanding feelings... not understanding the two-person model of relatioshipns...
Sax Apeal 516: i basically took the best thing i had in my life and contored it so much that it became something soo bad that neither of us could be in it anymore...
Sax Apeal 516: i made it a one-person oriented battle... no longer a team effort...
KNick71: ok how did shwe fuck up?
Sax Apeal 516: umm...
Sax Apeal 516: faith...
Sax Apeal 516: thats it...
Sax Apeal 516: faith
KNick71: in what?

Sax Apeal 516: in me somewhat...
Sax Apeal 516: in the process...
Sax Apeal 516: but i didn't allow her much room to have faith either...
Sax Apeal 516: but give up my feelings, i can't...
Sax Apeal 516: it would create a fake relationship...
KNick71: chris, u know what she wants now?

Sax Apeal 516: no clue
Sax Apeal 516: what?
KNick71: well it isnt a relationship
Sax Apeal 516: i know
KNick71: i think u need to wait for her to grow up
Sax Apeal 516: come again...
KNick71: and catch her when she falls
KNick71: how to explain this
Sax Apeal 516: please...
KNick71: she was always a little insecure
KNick71: that stems from her relationship with her mom
KNick71: and dad
Sax Apeal 516: i figured more with her dad..
Sax Apeal 516: whicih i also became... but... we digress..
KNick71: like i said
KNick71: growing up with her i knew that there was always an experimental side to her

KNick71: she wanted to try knew things... toi have fun
Sax Apeal 516: brb.. but continue...
KNick71: which can be bad
KNick71: u there?
Sax Apeal 516: yah
Sax Apeal 516: hard to read this stuff...
Sax Apeal 516: but im here...
Sax Apeal 516: so what was expiermental?
Sax Apeal 516: me or now?
KNick71: anyway, her insecureness, can lead her to do stupid stuff, i'e drinking, jonathon
Sax Apeal 516: hehe... jonathon...
KNick71: etc..
Sax Apeal 516: [regretful chuckling]
KNick71: ya me too
KNick71: anyway
Sax Apeal 516: yah we digresss once again...
KNick71: when i told u that u should wit till she grows up
KNick71: i meant that ...... shes still in that experiamnetal/ insecure stage
KNick71: and wants to party hardy
Sax Apeal 516: i know
Sax Apeal 516: yah
KNick71: what she needs, most of all, is a strong willed, novble man, who understands.... which is why u need to grow and develop as well
KNick71: to become that man that she needs in herlife
KNick71: not a control freak
KNick71: but a loving,
KNick71: compassionte
KNick71: hard woeking
KNick71: ethical
KNick71: morally righteous man
KNick71: who can stand and say, follow me, u have no reason to frear
KNick71: because i will never leave u
KNick71: and that is what will comfort her
Sax Apeal 516: adrian...
Sax Apeal 516: what i've tried to accomplish is to get back into her life, bc i've accepted that i can't have a realtionship with her now...
KNick71: sorry i digress
Sax Apeal 516: its ok
Sax Apeal 516: however if im not in her life at all, thats it...
Sax Apeal 516: if im friendly with her...
KNick71: wait, like i said, she needs to grow up
Sax Apeal 516: i'll let ya finish
KNick71: and when that thrill ends
KNick71: .......
Sax Apeal 516: yah
Sax Apeal 516: i know...
Sax Apeal 516: ........
Sax Apeal 516: who knows...
KNick71: the guys around her wont be able to pick up the peices
Sax Apeal 516: whcih means?
KNick71: which means u better be there to catch her b4 she does anythigbn esle stupid
Sax Apeal 516: but if she doesn't even let me contact her now, how can i be there when it happends...
KNick71: u dont have to be there physically there to be an angel
Sax Apeal 516: hmmm...
Sax Apeal 516: so just be there when she comes to me, about to crash?
KNick71: i think she would appreciate that more than anything else
Sax Apeal 516: was that ur answer?
KNick71: no, u let her no that....... u still care for her, a lot, and even if she doesnt want to return im or emails u understand your role in her life now, as a distant protector and that u will alwyas be there... inseatd of a constant nahg
Sax Apeal 516: [tear drops]
KNick71: its hurts like a bitch of course
Sax Apeal 516: yes
Sax Apeal 516: but
KNick71: but u both have work to do
KNick71: in terms of maturing of course
Sax Apeal 516: yes....
KNick71: so thats tagh
Sax Apeal 516: ok
Sax Apeal 516: adrian... ur wisdom, exceeds your years...
KNick71: nah, i just watch a lot of T.V
Sax Apeal 516: but im going to go... need to retrospect on this now...
Sax Apeal 516: time to go out for a ride...
KNick71: good lucj buddy, i got a new set of golf clubs we should try pout sometime
Sax Apeal 516: yah
Sax Apeal 516: definately
Sax Apeal 516: one weekend coming up soon
KNick71: ill show u my new swing too, its sweet
Sax Apeal 516: hehe
Sax Apeal 516: if not, chrismas break
KNick71: cool
Sax Apeal 516: yah
Sax Apeal 516: but have a good night
Sax Apeal 516: i will talk to ya later...
KNick71: u too
Sax Apeal 516: thanks for the talk
KNick71: later bud